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“They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction.” (Hosea 8:4)
Given the fact that Trump-euphoria has swept the nation (where it’s going is TBD), I thought I’d opine for a moment. Keep in mind a couple of things before your blood pressure elevates: 1) You came here. I didn’t make you continue reading or stay. If you’re going to comment, do so with at least some sort of courtly behavior. I’m fine with the delete button here, and on Facebook, btw. 2) Contrary to everyone’s constant butt-hurt online, you can ignore this and go about your day with smiles and sunshine. And coffee. 3) I’m fine with some interaction on the matter, but I ask that you respect my conscience as I will respect yours. There are Christians on all sides of the debate wrestling with the issues. Here we go.
It’s true that some men want to watch the world burn. It’s also true that some men want to light the match. In other words, when God brings judgment in history by raising up tyrants (Daniel 2:21; cf. Prov. 16:12), we will all see it, and some of us will be more culpable for it than others. But judgment for the people of God is restorative. Judgment for the unbeliever is punitive. They don’t have a substitutionary atonement. We do. The problem comes in when we want to help mete out the retribution (knowingly or unknowingly). I’ll come back to this point in a minute or two.
I’ve had some interactions lately regarding Trump and whether or not conservatives (Republican or not) should vote for him. At this point, he simply does not have my vote. Neither does Clinton. Both are unqualified for various reasons. But thankfully it’s only June, and a lot can happen. (There’s a lot of time to think through this and pray for wisdom.) Something that has concerned me in these conversations has been the charge leveled against me for opposing Trump. I’m told two things: 1) I’m helping Clinton get elected, and 2) I’m compromising. I can’t even…but I’m going to try.
Claim from the Trumpsters–”A non-vote or third-party vote is a vote for Clinton.” Look, I went to public school, but I had a great math teacher. Clearly you don’t understand how basic arithmetic works; or logic for that matter. Is voting for someone who “has no chance to win” a waste? Of course not. Nor is it a vote for someone else. If I refuse to vote for persons A or B because they are stupendously unqualified, and I cast a vote for person C, I’m voting for person C, not persons A or B. End of story. At best this type of argument is a fallacy. At worst it’s a futile exercise in pragmatic scare-tactics with a clear misunderstanding of the perennial problem of collectivism. “You’re voting for the truly evil person by throwing away your vote!” Let me help you translate this: “I’m willing to compromise biblical principles, why aren’t you?” Casting a vote is validating a candidate. You are attaching your moral culpability to a person. But casting a vote for one person is not both a vote for the one, and a (passive) vote for another. That’d be a non-sequitur, but I realize colleges aren’t requiring Logic 101 anymore. Just because you are willing to go to the booth with a clothespin over your nose doesn’t mean I have to. Besides, those things hurt anyway.
Claim from the Trumper-Tantrums–”You are compromising your conservatism by refusing to back the only conservative party in the fight who has a chance to win!” Who’s the compromiser? The one who casts his vote looking the other way? Or the one who sticks to biblical principles and trusts the sovereign judgment of God? If you want to vote for Trump, fine. But don’t call me the compromiser. And do answer me this: just what are you “conserving,” Mr. Conservative? Big government? Trillions of dollars of debt? Unjust wars that come from meddling and blowback? Excessive taxation that our forebears would have an aneurism over? True conservatism is dead in the Republican party. Both parties are full of big-government monkeyshines who want power and prestige. They don’t care about you, how could they?
But let’s get back to the charge of compromising. The biblical principle is this: “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it” (James 2:10). In other words, when you compromise on just one of the major biblical principles for who is qualified to rule over us, you’ve compromised on all of them. Never has this been more clear in recent history. The fact that Trump has gotten this far is an indictment on our Nation, and the Church. If Hillary wins, it will be judgment. If Sanders wins, it will be judgment. If Trump wins, it will be judgment. How does judgment work? It draws out the sin in the church in hopes of restorative discipline. The true compromisers are the evangellyfish Osteen-lovers who actually think he’s a decent preacher. The compromisers are the ones who look the other way on pretty basic principles because they fear someone else might do worse. Better the devil that you know, than the devil that you don’t know, right? Wrong. He’s still the devil whether you close your eyes or not. The compromisers are the ones who would much rather forget about God’s Word on qualifications and instead put someone in office for political expediency. “But the system is what it is, and we’re forced to pick the lesser of two evils!” First, they are both equally evil. Second, put down the gasoline and matches, ma’am, you’re gonna hurt someone. The system keeps going because you’re willing to compromise the Bible, and when we compromise the Bible, well, we get the king we deserve (1 Sam. 8). It’s never wrong to obey the Bible, not matter what Caesar says. Anyone who says these sorts of things is saying, “Your obedience to biblical principles in this way isn’t helping us.” Actually, I would argue, the church’s blatant disobedience of biblical principles is what’s getting us where we are. Welcome to the judgment of God. Please keep your arms and legs inside at all times.
Our responsibility is obedience to God. The consequences belong to God’s judicial governance of man. When the Church obeys the covenant, blessings come. When the Church decides to go a different way? We get a Trump vs. Clinton election. This is pretty basic stuff, actually.
“We’re not electing a pastor!” True. But we are electing a deacon (‘διάκονός’ –Romans 13:4). If you wouldn’t want this person on your Deacon board, you surely don’t want him ruling over you.
“We’re not a Christian nation in covenant with God!” 1) Yes, we are. We are a defiant nation who’s broken covenant with God. (See the Mayflower Compact to start). 2) So what! The Church is heaven’s garrison on earth. Let’s work towards it anyway, unless you’re more concerned about the Rapture. On this point I can’t help you.
I’ve heard the argument that the bus is going over the cliff, so if we elect Clinton, it’s just going to go towards the cliff at 100MPH. If we elect Trump, I’m told, it’ll only be going 55MPH. Whew! Isn’t that better! You know what we should really do? Get off the bus and steal the tires. Seriously though, if the bus is going to crash, let it. That’s right, let it. This is the judgment of God, and I’m not going to have a hand in pushing the dumb thing over the cliff. Remember the world burning? Yea, it burns under God’s wrath all the time (Rom. 1:18). He doesn’t need your match. We’re supposed to flee from unrighteousness, not bring a flashlight to show it to everyone.
“But what about the SCOTUS appointee!?” Really? That’s your 30-pieces of silver? You want us to believe that if we can just get Hitler in power, perhaps his secretary of whatever will let us keep our guns? They cannot and will not take our guns. And the 2nd Amendment? How about the federal government and her executive-branch appointed black robes do NOT govern the States. It’s called civil disobedience, and Colorado defied the feds with marijuana; I’m pretty sure we can do it with guns. Well, I’m pretty sure Texas can. California is too busy trying to find new ways to fornicate. Regardless, go here and learn, my friends.
Church: We must repent, not feed the machine. Resistance to tyrants, is obedience to God. We’re supposed to obey God not cuddle up with the tyrants and hope that maybe he’ll give us a lollipop. When this judgment comes–and it has come in part already–the Church shouldn’t be caught with matches in her hand. Our job isn’t to help mete out the judgment by staining our hands with political culpability. Our job is to repent and proclaim that our King is running the joint, scepter and all.
I don’t think you gave any evidence to call Trump a tyrant, or compare him to Hitler. What are your specific complaints? You could have said Trump’s not a Christian, been married 3 times, has a foul mouth, little restraint, no tact at times, but what else? There are tons of reasons to dislike Trump or not vote for him. Hitler was a murderer, he allowed gross human experimentation, he was truly more than a racist, he was bloodthirsty, etc. No one should be compared to him even lightly. Disappointed in your article.
Tyrant: “A cruel and oppressive ruler.” Babies are slaughtered, ergo, Obama is a tyrant, and so would a Trump presidency. Tyrants are people whom God raises us to judge a nation. They don’t honor King Jesus and instead become a law unto themselves. Autonomy is their mission objective.
Also, I didn’t call Trump “Hitler,” it was an analogy. Analogies can’t be pressed like a good fruit smoothie. Otherwise they taste awful.
Alas, Trump supports infanticide, which is pretty awful, to say the least.
Now that’s something specific. Better. Trump’s story of how he became to be pro-life may seem weak but I take it at face value, knowing like many people, his stand may be weak as well. I find it better than Hillary’s “nobody likes abortion”.
So we have a moralistic preacher here judging Trumps awakening on abortion? I do not like much of how Trump expresses himself and lack of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS which has hindered our country immensely. The media is calling the shots and I for one as a God fearing CHRISTIAN who has done my research for this past year am voting for Trump. It is very suspicious when Demos and Repubs do not want him….I smell dirty politics he may uncover when President. His conservative aides will help immensely ie Newt Gingrich etc. to polish him up. Stop the judgement….that’s Gods job. Plus, are you ready with all those morals you possess to have OBAMA appointed to the Supreme Court for life? Do our country a favor and just stay home PRAY and don’t vote…..prayers are needed for Gods help to put the right person in the job whom for me after much prayer is Trump
Wow. So your response to someone who doesn’t like your candidate is ‘stay home’, and ‘don’t vote’. Yes nothing tyranical at all about the Trump regime machine.
I totally agree Connie. This article is like many I’ve read where the author claims more godliness or sinlessness than Trump. We ARE NOT electing a pastor-in-chief! Like he thinks this is a bad argument. I believe that God has prepared Trump for this and would not all the obstacles Trump has overcome not emphasized that God has been over it all. I pray God’s will be done. Unless I feel like God tells me differently I am voting for Trump. Also, one more thing, the “math” he was talking about doesn’t work that way in politics. It just doesn’t and I would never never want killary as my president!
Linda,
Why would God send Trump, when Darrell Castle is obviously lived as a committed believer(not sinless)for his entire life and is totally committed to following the dictates of the Constitution as president?
Shouldn’t we be looking seriously at Darrell Castle?
Sorry Brenda, as a supporter of Planned Parenthood Donald Trump is not pro-life. I don’t care what he says!
He used to be John! If he says he is for pro-life then I believe him. By the way have you ever done things that you regret doing? Thought so. We all have a right to change our morals, ideas and ethics.
“He used to be.” Exactly. That’s the problem. He panders to anyone and everyone. Mark my words: the Evangelical church is being duped, and in due time, the church will reap what she has sown.
Agreed! Trump changes his core issues back and forth. Why would anyone believe him. The thought of Hillary as president is mind numbing, but it doesn’t mean I should sell out my principles and vote for the lesser of 2 evils. I will probably vote for Allen West.
It’s kind of frightening how some people are so blinded it’s like they’re on a parallel track that can’t ever meet. Somehow honoring God has taken a back seat. Or no seat at all.
Believers in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ must pray for God’s will to be done. Repent and pray for all leaders in our country. Use wisdom granted through bible scripture and prayer to vote your conscience. If God is going to judge America for turning away from Him, so be it….so pray and vote accordingly.
I like how the underlying assumption is that all christians are conservative. This is not the case.
How can you really call yourself a Christian and NOT be conservative??
That’s a joke, right? I certainly hope so. I suppose, however, that very much depends on how you define “conservative.” Please explain.
That was really great. Here is Albert Mohler giving his take that supports your statements.
https://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2016/07/albert-mohler-russell-moore-donald-trump-christians-voting/
Please tell me exactly what your objections to Trump are? I am trying to sift through this. Many flawed humans have served God. Is it his past mistakes or current ones. Exactly why do you object to him. I need to judge this against scripture. Thank you.
Exactly. What is so bad about Trump that is any worse than previous presidents? Those that refuse to vote for Trump simply have too much pride. Especially if they are so called “Christians”. By the way I am a Christian and I do not judge Trump or start listing his negative side. killary has a cazillion more things wrong with her!
You say you don’t judge Trump, then call Hillary Killary. Hilarious. Unfortunately, you embody the very personality Jason is pointing out.
Thank you Jasin for articulating what so many of us, though we may be few, are thinking. As for my house, we will serve the Lord. Not Trump or Hillary.
Two things.
1) We don’t make decisions based upon what we don’t know (anticipations for the future); we base them off of what we do know. We’re not sovereign.
2) We don’t make decisions based upon pragmatism. (Well, so and so turned out alright!)
That said, Trump is a fascist. He’s a big-government fraud. He’s a liar, a serial-adulterer, and just became ‘pro-life’ about 5 minutes ago. He panders to whomever he’s talking with, constantly changing his positions depending on who he is talking to. Does he know Putin or not?
Just recently it was shared somewhere that he said three times in a discussion, “Why can’t we use our nukes?”
Look at the Fruit of the Spirit and Beatitudes. Trump is the opposite of all of them.
For more qualifications, look here: https://jasongarwood.com/its-a-political-circus-really/
Unfortunately, the veil is over their eyes.
Thank you thank you! I felt like a lone voice in the wilderness before reading yours and Matt Walsh’s comments on the subject. I’ve grown so weary of all the arguments to vote for Trump – from “christians”, that I’ve considered giving up social media altogether. It’s astounding to me how so many feel justified in voting for “the lesser evil” as if voting for any evil is somehow ok with God. As for me, I’m putting the blood on the doorpost and pleading for God’s protection and mercy on me and my loved ones.
Most disturbing is that some Christians supported Trump even before the primaries began! Clearly, both Clinton and Trump are unfit to be president. I will probably write-in Ted Cruz, the candidate who is a true conservative, a brother in Christ, and who should’ve carried the Christian vote. Indeed, “judgment begins at the house of God.” 🙁
Loved your article.
I think one problem is a lot of Christians Dont know what the bible says about picking our rulers and we just do things the way we always have. 2nd, I’m pretty sure you said or implied in your article that God can allow Trump or Hillary to be elected as a judgement on us. Not because they would be good leaders. Did I read that right?
I need to save this article. ?
(Quote) Casting a vote is validating a candidate. You are attaching your moral culpability to a person.
That was the punch in the belly for me. Don’t need toothpicks stuck in my eye lids to open my eyes. That did the trick! Thanks. ??
Trump often quotes Hitler. They are like minded.
I agree with you, Brenda. This article lost my interests when he slammed another evangelist.
If by “evangelist” you mean “false teacher,” then yes, I slammed him. Scripture compels me.
I LOVE this article. I was having almost this same conversation with my mother and her husband this past weekend. Well written, but unfortunately this is the internet, where there are faceless masses that can talk down to us, and be talked down to by us, throwing compassion to the wind. Either way I think what you have said here, and are not getting criticism for, is well stated. So, thank you.
You are voting for a national leader – not your pastor. Just vote for the one that best represents your views.
He addressed this very statement: “We’re not electing a pastor!” True. But we are electing a deacon (Romans 13:4). If you wouldn’t want this person on your Deacon board, you surely don’t want him ruling over you.
It’s a bit more important than “just vote for who best represents your view.”
Are there any candidates running who we would want on our deacon board? I haven’t found any. I do know that a lot of the bad press against Trump is false propaganda produced by his opponents. He may not be a smooth diplomat but he is an honest and knowledgeable business man, something we haven’t had in a president for a long time. This is why we are in the state of financial ruin that we are in. To use the bus analogy it is possible that Trump may actually be able to apply the brakes.
1. Tom Hoefling. Google the name.
2. There are no brakes on this bus, no matter who is at the helm.
I agree with what you said. But we also have to remember in the Old Testament Israel was put in bondage for what they did against God. God harden Phoroah’s heart in Exodus. Everything that is done, is done because He has willed it so. The book of Revelation has to come to past. And Hillary will make sure of that. I think Trump is a pawn so that Hillary can have a chance at making history (this will be the Democratic Party 2nd history in the making). And believe you me, all this was done or planned years ago. We will see our Constitution will begin to have loop holes. Where all of this police and gun violence will eventually have us not being able to protect ourselves when it comes to owning a gun. These movies and TV shows aren’t just fiction. This is what about to take place. “The Hunger Games”, “Divergent”, “The Maze Runner”, “American Odyssey”, and the list goes on and on.
Honest and knowledgeable businessman?! Are you serious?! Wow. We have dropped the bar through the basement floor.
Well, I surely DO NOT want killary (you know, the one who said “what difference does it make?”)
So, pragmatism, instead of biblical principles, is your strategy? That’s what I’m debunking here. Do you trust the Sovereign hand of God or not? Far too much of this is based off of fear tactics. We don’t need to be afraid.
A deacon is a servant, not a ruler.
I’m pretty sure that was his point. ?
It is as simple and as complicated as voting for “who best represents your views”. The obvious problem is that no candidate represents all of (or most of) our views accurately. Those that best do, often fail to get anything done. And not all views are of equal importance. So each person needs to decide what the tipping point is for a candidate to disagree with their views.
As believers, God’s Word ought to guide our views on many important areas very implicitly. On other areas, there’s room room for differences. But I would disagree with the point that we’re electing a deacon. We’re “hiring” someone to run our country. If I owned my own business, I would be perfectly comfortable hiring someone who didn’t know Christ to work with me, assuming that they adequately performed the duties that I was hiring them for. We’re hiring someone who will support legislation that will support our moral views (as dictated by God’s Word) as best as we can tell first, and then someone who supports the other areas of ideals secondly.
With that said, I will not vote for Trump. I cannot affirm him. I do not believe him. I think he will be just as disastrous as Hillary.
My Views I can’t trust, but Gods Views I wholly can and will, as should anyone who professes to be a Christian. Great article Jason! Here are just a few of the countless verses every believer needs to examine when formulating “their views” While the context may be thin on some, the broad principals are irrefutable;
“When you sit down to eat with a ruler, observe carefully what is before you, and put a knife to your throat if you are given to appetite. Do not desire his delicacies, for they are deceptive food. Do not toil to acquire wealth; be discerning enough to desist.” (Proverbs 23:1-4 )
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; (Psalm 1:1)
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. (Colossians 2:8)
“Many seek the face of a ruler, but it is from the Lord that a man gets justice.” (Proverbs 29:26)
“Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.”(Philippians 3:17)
“Be not envious of evil men, nor desire to be with them, for their hearts devise violence, and their lips talk of trouble.” (Proverbs 24:1-2)
“They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction. (Hosea 8:4)
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it (James 2:10)
And the Lord said to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them. According to all the deeds that they have done, from the day I brought them up out of Egypt even to this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are also doing to you. Now then, obey their voice; only you shall solemnly warn them and show them the ways of the king who shall reign over them.” (1 Samuel 8:7-9)
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them. (Ephesians 5:6-7)
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. (Ephesians 5:11)
After the High Priests strictly charged Peter and the apostles not to preach about Jesus, Peter and the apostles said “We must obey God rather than Men” (Acts 5:29)
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but have itching ears that they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. (2 Timothy 4:3)
Whoever says to the wicked, “You are in the right,” will be cursed by peoples, abhorred by nations, but those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them.”
(Proverbs 24:24-25) Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD.7,”Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose trust is the LORD. (Jeremiah 17:5,7) “The words of the wise heard in quiet are better than the shouting of a ruler among fools. Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but one sinner destroys much good.” (Ecclesiastes 9:17-18)
But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”(James 4:6),
For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”(Luke 14:11)
Thus says the LORD: “Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty man boast in his might, let not the rich man boast in his riches,(Jeremiah 9:23)
When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with the humble is wisdom. (Proverbs 11:2)
As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. (James 4:16)
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs. (1 Timothy 6:10)
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:24)
if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.(2 Chronicles 7:14)
“It is not good to be partial to the wicked or to deprive the righteous of justice.”
(Proverbs 18:5)
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18)
Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people. (Proverbs 14:34)
Good sense is a fountain of life to him who has it, but the instruction of fools is folly. (Proverbs 16:22)
“Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
(2 Thessalonians 2:11-12)
Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (Romans 1:32)
This.
Amen!
Jason ‘s blog is what needed to be said as a Christian I cannot vote for Trump he does not represent how Jesus has said we should live. The scriptures above are what the bible says and as Christians we should obey Gods word we are not republican or democrats. Based upon some of the comments Aren’t we children of God? Is this giving God the glory he deserves?
Great Article brother!
“Vote as if your ballot determines nothing whatsoever—except the shape of your own character. Vote as if the public consequences of your action weigh nothing next to the private consequences. The country will go whither it will go, when all the votes are counted. What should matter the most to you is whither you will go, on and after this November’s election day.” ~ Matthew J. Franck (posted in Public Discourse via the Witherspoon Institute)
Jim, great quote! Thanks for sharing!
Good point Jim! I wish people were talking like this during the primary. Instead now that it’s too late, we talk. Too bad. The Evangelical church threw four good, godly, conservative, and constitutional minded men and woman under the bus this year. i am broken hearted and disgusted!
Jason, thank you for the time and biblical insight. I was convicted and encouraged simultaneously.
I agree with every point you made. At least we aren’t all raping each other in the streets yet. God is full of mercy.
Thank you for articulating in much better fashion than I am able what I feel is the closest parallel to my own thoughts. I’m simply going to send this to folks who ask me “How could you NOT vote for him?”
I think we are living in a time of “given over”.
Yes, yes, yes!! A thousand times yes. This is what I’ve been saying for some time you said it best. Thank you for this article.
This is a breathtakingly clear argument. Thank you. It is quite helpful.
[…] is an absolutely fantastic post by Jason Garwood. So many good lines in this one, but as a deacon, here is one of my favorites. […]
Thought provoking. Well said, Vodie. The lesser of two evils is still evil. I have voted every Presidential election since I became eligible in 1969 but can’t find a worthy candidate. Even if I held my nose in the voting booth, I think I would still throw up. May God’s undeserving mercy be on us.
Thank you for this article… I have been struggling with this. I read Grudem’s article and thought he made some sense, then I read the rebuttals and thought they made some sense… this article is straight up truth. Great job!
I’m voting for Trump because I believe he will appoint better Judges for the Supreme Court. If Hillary wins she will appoint far left Judges. I believe that is what’s at stake here in this election. Trump is a candidate with flaws, but I think God can use him and I will pray for that.
If Hillary wins, we lose the Supreme Court. Game over.
The Supreme Court is already lost. Roe…ObamaCare…Same-sex mirage… Hence the Sovereignty of God. Our job is to repent.
I completely agree with your article.. in times like this we need to be like Daniel
If Hillary wins and we lose America entirely, does God lose His authority or relevance? Can anyone or anything prevent the Lord’s pardon or blessing if He chooses to give it?
There’s that underlying assumption again… “we”… who is this we? Gotta be careful in that not all God-fearing believers in the redeeming blood of the Lamb are conservative and/or republicans.
Good point.
Honestly, it doesn’t have to be Hillary OR Donald. Substitute any member of the human species (Christ being the usual exception) and the equation is pretty much the same ultimately.
Yeah this whole article was a whole misuse of scripture and just came across as arrogant… Deacons serve in the church for the church not in political office. And to think America is a Christian nation is just wrong. God doesn’t intend to setup an earthly kingdom. That would go against so many things He has said. And btw I think it’s funny that the author mentioned “breaking one part of the law you break all of it”. Well good luck with keeping the law. Tell me how that works out for you.
1. Hi. You said that this whole article “was a whole [sic] misuse of scripture.” Do tell me where my exegesis is failing.
2. Deacons are an ecclesiastical office. “deacons” are servants. Paul uses the Greek word for ‘deacons’ in Romans 13:4. So, my argument stands.
3. America started as a Christian nation covenanted with God–the Mayflower Compact says as much. But in order to keep covenant, we need Christians in America.
4. “God doesn’t intend to setup an earthly kingdom.” YES! I agree. He doesn’t intend to do so. He already has done so per the words of our Lord Jesus, the true and exalted King who has authority in heaven AND on earth (Matthew 28).
5. My law-keeping is EXCELLENT. That’s because I have Jesus’ righteousness imputed to my account–He obeyed perfectly for me in my place. And now I have the Holy Spirit, who has written the Law on my heart.
Thanks for coming and contributing. Have a blessed day!
Fair enough.
Jason, you expressed my own convictions on this matter exactly and clearly. I simply do not understand people whom I have known for a long time and respected as believers, who are now so virulent in their support of Trump and their hateful comments against fellow Christians and conservatives. We still have a few months left, as you say, in which to see where the Lord leads here. But I would hope that those who call themselves Christians would actually go to God and His Word and not react so blindly. And if, after doing so, they still choose to support Trump, at least may they have the Christian decency not to burn at the stake those who have come to a different conclusion by their own confidence and commitment to God and His Word.
Thank you for that article. Here is where I am at ;
There is no doubt that Donald Trump is the lessor of two evils. Before I go on let me describe evil. It is anyone who is not a Christian.
Now I need to describe a Christian. A Christian is anyone who has come to repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Repentance is not 50%, 75%, or 99%. It is 100% and the person then takes that heart toward God and they place it on the Lord Jesus, and faith comes alive and they are born again.
The result is that they will be commandment keepers and never again return to the practice of sinning.
Now,the problem is that those who support Donald Trump still support evil as he is NOT a Christian. We had a chance in the primary to have someone represent us who is not evil, but who is a Christian and that is Ted Cruz.
Many church leaders and church people did not want him and chose the evil so now we are faced with two evils a lessor and greater, but still evil.
Both are at war with God and God is at war with them both and these so called christians are suggesting we should vote for someone who is at war with God.
This is exactly what the church practices today and why the church is in the mess it is in.
Those so called church leaders and their followers who support this mess now want those of us who refuse to support evil to compromise like they are compromising.
They claim that if Hillary gets in she will put the finishing touch on destroying this country, and you know what?
They are probably right, but they should have thought about that before they supported evil instead of a Christian.
They sowed to the flesh and now are worried about reaping corruption.
Let me be clear! I WILL NOT become a compromiser like many so called christians and vote for the lessor of two evils even if it means this country goes down the drain.
So what ever happens in the election and following years is on the heads of those who chose evil instead of a Christian to lead this nation.
Let me say this. IF Donald Trump becomes a Christian between now and the election, not in calling but in practice, I will vote for him.
I have to battle my sins daily so I refuse to support a sinner in their sins and be a partaker with them even if it means I suffer great loss in this life.
Simply put I will NOT take the same road as the many.
Joshua 24:14,15.
“IF Donald Trump becomes a Christian between now and the election, not in calling but in practice”. Trump has been divorced and remarried. What do you expect him to do about this as a “practicing” Christian? How will you KNOW he is a practicing Christian?
So you personally pass judgement on Trump claiming he is not a Christian. Good to know that you know his heart. And by your definition of a Christian, there has been only one, and we murdered him for being perfect. You claim that a Christian is a person that never returns to sin. I struggle with sin every day and i fail every day. So i guess your judgement applies to me as well. Christians that stand on podiums and point out others sins, are what turn so many people away from Christ. I have heard the tired argument of this article claiming that if a conservative doesnt vote for Trump then than doesn’t mean they are voting for hillary. While this article tries to twist it the fact is that there are only two options for president. Demoncrats that wont vote for hillary will most likely stay home. Most conservatives realize their duty in voting. Trump votes will overwhelmingly come from conservatives. So if you are a conservative and not voting Trump then you are assisting hillary in her quest. I have no doubts in the power of God. His plan to return is set in stone. My take is that you use your vote to put in the better candidate, and then you trust your prayers to the power if God to use that candidate for his plan. If you are of the opinion that a bus may crash, do you jump off and tell everyone still on that they are a fool for not jumping? Or do you use what power (in this case your vote and prayers) to try to stop the crash?
Voting for Mr. Donald Trump (lesser evil or otherwise) could be our duty. That said, casting a vote should take a back seat to the greater issue of seeking God’s involvement in the election, future presidency, etc.
I love what you just said. My thoughts exactly.
So, who, my friend is the “Christian” that we vote for? Can you name one? Don’t think so. The issue is to not allow killary (remember Benghazi) to become president. If your vote (which happens when you do not vote Trump) gets killary in there then think about what you have contributed to a living Hell on earth. She will make obummie look goooood!
Tom Hoefling.
No, the issue is NOT about Hillary Clinton. The issue is about obedience to God. But I guess we can’t expect that from the church whose political idolatry has made her drunk with pragmatism.
My vote for a third-party candidate is NOT a vote for Hillary. But if you can’t get basic logic correct, then I can’t help you any longer.
I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I would be interested in the third party candidate you are supporting, because out of the 4 parties that are on the ballot in all states, Trump is the only one who, even if by lip service, professes to be pro-life.
I’m looking at Darrel Castle (Constitution Party) and Tom Hoefling (America’s Party). Hoefling is my number 1 pick right now.
It is all together and connected! Sorry, but you are hugely wrong in thinking that a third party candidate is not a vote for killary (remember Benghazi). I really don’t need your help Jason to discern what is the best route. By the way can you say what exactly you have against Trump? And maybe not put it into a book but concisely. Perhaps you are still trying to hang onto Cruz. I do not know. But there are only 2 nominees running for this election. Read my lips…..2. It’s either or. To vote for a 3rd party is worse than voting for Trump which you seem to judge so harshly. What makes you so pure that you say he is so awful?
Linda, anymore comments from you will be deleted. You continue to cling to both fear and fallacy, and there is nothing left for you to say.
“I really don’t need your help Jason to discern what is the best route.” Possibly true, but you continue to ignore Scripture and if that’s what you’re looking to continue, then please move on. If you can’t argue that point, then there’s no more conversation that needs to take place. If you don’t need my help, then please stop commenting.
And no, there are not just 2 nominees. Again, math and logic are your enemies if you’re going to continue down that path.
“What makes you so pure?” Jesus. That’s it.
Brilliantly expressed! The best “vote as God would have you do” post I’ve read.
This was absolutely perfect, thank you for writing it!
Perfectly said brother.
I posted something during the last election that I am sick and tired of having to always vote the “lesser of two evils”. Whatever happened to voting our conscience? Also, this “your not voting for is a vote for ” really IS a Non sequitur! I think the Republicans think that the Democrats are ALL unified in their thinking, almost like a hive mentality and stand solidly behind their candidate, walking lockstep arm and arm into this great new progressive utopia etc…. Whether or not that’s been true in the past or not, in THIS election it most certainly isn’t.
I could go on, because this started as a “atta boy” and turned into a rant.
Keep up the good work, keep fighting the good fight…others, MANY others, are on the same page!
Thank you for your efforts here!!! Keep the Faith.
Trump is not my favorite but by far better than Clinton for the country. My reasoning is The Supreme Court justice (s) the be chosen. If we get more liberal justices on this court this country will be changed for decades. 4-8 more years of progressive liberal policies will cause more decline in the economic, world standing, and morals of this country. And yes you believe a non-vote or vote for third party will be casting a vote for the Clinton machine.
Even conservative presidents have had trouble appointing morally conservative Supreme Court justices, so it’s a real stretch to trust Trump on this or on any other issue that he tries to sound like he cares about moral issues.
well just remember how Roberts got there
Jason, while you are okay at math, you are seemingly ignorant of the reality of American politics in the last seventy-five years. If you vote for a candidate who has no chance of being elected, you are, practically speaking, wasting your vote. Expressing your personal preferences by way of a vote is ignorant and childish. No one knows you did it except you. The only real result is that it will help whoever wins get the win because you were not one of the voters who supported the opposition.
Your argument that while we aren’t electing a pastor, we are electing a deacon is merely semantics — it does not change the argument.
The fact is that both Hillary Clinton and Gary Johnson are pro-choice and are okay with abortions as late as the thirty-sixth week of pregnancy — that’s nine months. How’s my math?
God judged ancient Israel for sacrificing children to a false god. We have sacrificed MILLIONS of children to the god of convenience! That alone should tell us where our vote should go.
As someone who, before God called to ministry, was going to be a history teacher, I’ll turn the other cheek on your asinine comment regarding my alleged “ignorance of American politics in the last seventy-five years.” You further stated, “Expressing your personal preferences by way of a vote is ignorant and childish. No one knows you did it except you.” To which I respond, the Lord knows–and that should cause much consternation in the soul. Thanks for stopping by.
I’m not sure who you would vote for if your criteria is would they make a good deacon. None of the candidates qualify in that regard. Do you then not vote or do you pick the one who has the best chance of turning the country around? Personally I am going to vote for Trump because I believe that he has the best chance of doing that. I think we have an obligation to our country to make the best choice.
The Bible lays out the criteria. We aren’t looking for a perfect person–how could Israel have possibly found anyone? How can churches find elders? We’re looking for some pretty basic stuff, and you can find that here.
The issue is, obedience to God takes primacy. My obligation is to Christ and His crown rights, FIRST. When my country is at odds with King Jesus, I will choose Him every single time.
I’m looking at Tom Hoefling right now.
Amen. I like your reasoning. I’m with you. Yeah, like who is on the “list” that would be a Godly person? Who?
Oh, my, preacher of the Word uses the vocabulary of words Christians probably do not need to say. For example……asinine! Wow! Maybe that came at a moment you felt attacked. Your math does not work in politics! Sorry to let you know that. You, sir, are not above us all to lecture us on “evils” and lesser evils. To vote for killary would be such an enormous mistake that there would be a living Hell on earth. When you do not vote for the nominee than you vote for the other party! Plain and simple. End of story!
Asinine means “extremely stupid or foolish.” As in, your logic regarding my vote for third party being a vote for Hillary is “asinine.” That’s a perfectly legitimate word to describe that which should described as foolish.
No one said I was above you. This is my blog. These are my thoughts. You don’t have to stay here. In fact, please move on.
I’m not voting for Hillary. And this whole “living hell on earth” scare tactic is part of the problem. God is Sovereign, even if Clinton is elected. But alas, here were are.
And no, I’m not voting for the other party. Again, basic logic. Maybe this will help you?
If a road is full of potholes and you take a different road, are you saying that road is the quickest way?
Similarly when I vote for someone in not saying they have my validation, I’m choosing a road with less potholes.
There is a fallacy
That was a very well written, thought provoking and witty article. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this insane situation we find ourselves in.
The name, Nebuchadnezzar, kept coming to mind once I saw the direction our country was taking on Presidential picks. God is sovereign, and knowing that truth is what has given me peace over this whole debacle.
I totally agree with thi! I have been saying to people for weeks now that I plan on fasting, praying and full out repenting and voting for Jesus. sounds silly to some to say I’m writing Jesus but its my symbolic way of saying that He is the only one that can save us and I will not vote for the lesser of 2 evils because God can bring judgment through anyone. its us who must repent and call on Him. put our faith in Him and His mercy and not the system or the crappy candidates. we have these candidates because God pretty much said, Here you go, choose your destruction. And unfortunately many Christians will do just that.
Thanks for writing this.
I was considering voting for Gary Johnson but can’t, with good conscience, do it.
Darrell Castle of the constitution party is about the only person I have found that agree with on mostly all issues. What, in your opinion, is the best alternative? Just vote for everything but the president?
I don’t know the answers to the above questions but have been seeking guidance through prayer.
Thanks again for this!
Tom Hoefling.
Thank you for writing this, Brother Jason.
Personally, what bothers me most (I think) in all of this is the near utter focus on what we are to do on a human, earthly, God-irrelavant level/basis. What has the greater impact? Shouldn’t we, if we *actually* believe in the God of scripture, spend more of our time, energy, heart and words seeking His *heart* and *intervention* than this …insane… fixation on our votes and candidates?
There is a more fundamental disconnect here…
The fact that so-called “Christians” feel their salvation lies in voting at all—or participating in the centralized “governments of the world”—indicates that they ARE NOT building the “Kingdom of Heaven”, a very real and tangible parallel system of decentralized government.
James 1:27 “Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.”
That word “world” is translated from the word “kosmos” which simply means “an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government.”
The official religion of US churchians is the US Government. Because that’s the entity that provides their welfare, social security, public education and so on.
If so-called churches were really doing their jobs, they would have parallel systems in place to voluntarily provide for their congregants through love and charity so there would be no need for them to “pray to the benefactors that exercise authority“, “covet their neighbor’s goods” (accept benefits collected through forced taxation) and become spotted by the world.
Luke 22:25-27 “And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.”
See Tithing and Power Politics: Taxes of a Free Nation
I like you Bro but you theological types are the ones messing up America, you had your turn, you messed up, you ate wrong stop trying to prove a political point with a Biblical point, it doesn’t wash with us any more, we the public are tired of all the bull, it least the brother will give it a go and forget the PC evangelical nonesence, sorry Bro Staines you ate wrong, dead wrong
This election has gotten to “only vote for the Holy Candidate”
Question: how many people support abortion? In the case of incest or rape? Do you know that Bush the younger supported that? I’d hardly call that holy. Now, how many of you voted for Bush because he was a godly candidate? And there you go…
All, I can say is, Amen! Amen! Amen! Good, scripturally sound logical argument here! Of course, I have been walking this path for 24 years as a charter member of the Constitution Party! Refreshing and encouraging words for my heart! It’s a tough walk at times, but so worth it!
You got it right, finally someone that isn’t following the crowd….I have been praying and I could not in a good conscience vote for Trump and I will not be bullied by the other side either. I’m praying the Lord sends an answer.
great article!
I know it is generally considered bad form, but +1 (× 1000), and “me, too”, and ?, etc. Thank you. You have so thoroughly framed or codified my own thoughts. I was not likely to have said it better myself (at least not so succinctly). Thank you for giving voice to my view. Not trying to bandwagon, but God did make us social creatures, and we still find comfort and encouragement in seeing others who agree, which is so much of why we are commanded to gather together within our churches, encouraging each other to love and good works, and the like.
God is excellent in his judgments (even our present trials). “…, [L]et God be true, but every man a liar…”
[…] Here is an article well worth the read: Vote for Trump? Nope. […]
Totally agree!! Trump at least has some promise that he may carry out actions in which our country truly needs. Clinton we know her dealings already! Just because trump carries his thoughts and words on his sleeve doesn’t mean Clinton is any better when hers are hidden. Many of her close advisors are coming out and revealing the true Hillary off camera, and it’s not pretty!
I have yet to hear a reasoned, scriptural argument for voting the lesser of two evils. If your argument is merely worldly, why yes, you can make the argument. Albeit I believe weak. But, as a Christian, there is no moral standing for the lesser argument. Jason’s article hits the nail on the head. I believe the backlash stems in part for how close to home it hits. Bravo, on a well written article. Bravo.
Who was it that Jesus Christ drew a line in the sand for to protect from being stoned to death? This woman wasn’t perfect by any means and neither is Trump but we cast stones at a man that I truly believe wants to help. He isn’t a politician and that to me speaks volumes. Hillary has no morals with the destruction of the unborn, leaving troops to die and continuation of the rich paying for special favors which I believe is your true 30 pieces of silver. I have one question what is the Church ready to do for this country if Hillary Clinton is elected, we can pray which I will admit that I fail to do from time to time. I think for us Christians, God wants us to act and let our voices be heard. My final note vetting people is protecting our way of life, seeing what has happened in France, decapitation of a priest do you want more of these atrocities to spill over into our country I for one am tired of the bloodshed we have already seen in the USA.
Well written Jason and I agree with you. I personally prefer the destruction of both political parties as a result of this election. Or at least the Republican party. It would be more beneficial in the long run. Our nation deserves what it gets if either of these two tyrants gets elected. The only problem is that I doubt if our nation would learn from it and repent. They would only find a new more miserable normal. Our current National condition is a great reminder that presidents are not our Saviors. Our goal should be spreading Truth and fighting the lies of the evil one, not electing a savior. Keep fighting the good fight.
This one may rattle some Murica cages, but has anyone considered the fact that voting may very well be treason? Specifically, voting for the leader of the insurgent nation occupying each of our 50 nations in the Union? The only justification for “marriage equality”, Roe vs. Wade, and the neverending list of rights-destroying legislation in the 14th amendment in all cases (look it up!). It just so happens that the 14th amendment was the “reconstruction” of the Union after the War of States that dissolved the republic sovereignty and built the bank-owned, corporate, de facto government run amok we have today.
I like your thinking outside the box. But we’ve all contracted away our state citizenships…
I agree. Third party voting with only one if the 2 . If they think a third party can win, they are clueless. Its Trump or Hillary, we need to vote just like every election for the one we feel will be the better for America and will strive to fight for its freedoms and rights and one who cares about the lives of the military and babies. Anyone who isnt happy with the wonderful Obama Administration now will only regret not voting for Trump with Killary gets in. She’s bad news!
A thousand times thank you!! I’ve had a hard time understanding why so few Christians seem to be trusting God (our sovereign God) and how fear is ruling so many hearts. So vast is this situation, I’ve found myself questioning what I know is right. When Christian pastors I trust and respect are parroting this fear-based reasoning, I begin to think maybe I’m looking at this wrong or not understanding.Thank you for saying all the things I couldn’t. Thank you for straight forward replies to the naysayers. (Thank you for your patience!) Thank you for your obedience to God. And thank you for promoting Tom Hoefling, a good and godly candidate.
I read your article and see what your saying. I read this one yesterday. If you haven’t seen it, you might enjoy the read. We’ve got a lot to think about this election. I try to be objective and read what all people right. Then do a lot of praying. 🙂
https://lastchanceamerica.wordpress.com/2016/07/27/to-the-never-trumper-a-biblical-case-for-trump/
What I want to know is, who in the world are you supposed to vote for. As the old folks say, this world has gone to hell in a hand basket.
Castle2016.com
Look at Tom Hoefling. The world isn’t a sinking ship; we’re just a rebellious people. The Lord will draw His people back to Himself. We simply must repent. (Which was really the point of this article.)
I read with interest your article on Nope to Trump and appreciated your perspective but it still leaves me a bit puzzled. I haven’t read all of the other comments posted so please excuse me if I cover the same ground as others. It seems that the bottom line of your position is that we, as a nation are in the spiral of divine judgment in progress and therefore nothing good will come from Christians voting for the lesser of two evils. Is that a fair characterization?
It appears to me that the last time we had a black and white choice was in the garden of eden. And once we left there, all decisions are varying shades of gray. Now every decisions seems to be a choice between how much gray we will allow our conscience and personal convictions to tolerate.
I remember when I marched in a large pro-life rally many years ago when my children were small. Afterwards the local newspaper commented that a survey of those attending indicated that only 10% of the participants were registered to vote. I asked myself why any politician would be motivated to pay attention to a pro-lifer if he didn’t even care to vote. But what if the candidates were very pro-life but had other objectionable baggage? Would it be better to not vote at all to preserve the purity of my convictions or do I soil my hands by pulling the lever for a person who falls short of my expectations of integrity yet possibly save a life?
Living life in these last days seems to require much wisdom…
If my son had Parkinson’s disease and stem cells from an aborted fetus would save him, I suppose I would agree to allow the procedure for the sake of the son who I love.
If I were to avoid purchasing anything from a company that had business dealings with something inconsistent with my faith, I would probably be living in a field somewhere and beating my clothes on a rock. I haven’t found a way to reconcile every decision in my life that is totally consistent with my convictions. If you have, I would surely like to know your secret.
Until I find the secret, I plan on voting, even though it may be a choice of the lightest color of charcoal gray. Thanks for your perspective and allowing me to express mine.
Thank you for so clearly articulating reason! Unfortunately, fear and sin have blinded so many. You are right — we, as a nation, are under judgment. I think that while we all will suffer in the coming days, perhaps God will protect/shield/soften the blow for those who stood most closely with His Word. I am more fearful of standing before God to give an account of how I voted (stewardship of His gifts) than I am fearful of the future of this nation. It’s a hard and lonely place to be. I make no claim to perfection or exclusive truth. But I do acknowledge God’s sovereignty over all things, and it is best to seek His opinion above all others.
AMEN!
This is just my personal opinion and I wanted to know what people thought upon the subject, I have always believed that America’s number one problem has always been abortion; I have had friends who have had abortions, I have listened to both sides of the argument and evaluated it all on my own. Call it what you want, I don’t see how a baby is not a baby before it is a baby and so my number one deciding factor for my vote has always been the nominee’s stance on abortion. If you think about it from this point of view, every other debatable topic becomes obsolete; nothing any candidate could realistically do would result in the amount of deaths that abortion actually causes on a monthly level, so although I wouldn’t have chosen Trump as the nominee, I will still sleep fine at night when I vote for him in order to keep a person out of the White House who actively supports the killing of hundreds of thousands of people; and I know all about the third party vote, to me it isn’t relevant; lets get rid of the laws that kill the most Americans before we debate over other right wing/left wing issues. Just so people know my demographic I am a 19 y/o male in college studying for a BSN
AMEN! We are IN the world NOT of it!
Hello, Jason, and all. I read the post and a number of the comments, and based on what I read (forgive me if these points have already been covered), I need to make a few important points:
(1) Contrary to what some commenters have said, a non-vote, and/or, a vote for a third party candidate is *not* the equivalent of a vote for Hillary or vice versa. This is true for several reasons, but I’ll only take the time to point out the simplest explanation; namely that the POTUS is not elected by popular vote. So, just as an example – I live in Oklahoma. Oklahoma will go Trump (notwithstanding his recent gaffs) by a 2/3 majority *at least.* When I abstain (and I will abstain), it will not change the outcome; if I could convince a thousand friends, relatives and acquaintances to abstain, it would not change the outcome. Trump will get all of Oklahoma’s electoral votes. That, my friends, is as good as written in stone.
Now, if you live in a swing state, and/or, in a state that splits its electors, then your argument has more weight. But the point is that it most certainly *is not* the “end of story” that a non-vote is the same thing as a vote for Hillary. To believe that it is betrays a severe lack of knowledge and understanding about how the electoral system works in the U.S.; an aspect of what I’ve referred to for years as “Constitutional illiteracy.” To state it so dogmatically betrays a character flaw that I will touch on momentatily. That’s my first point.
(2) As has been pointed out numerous times in history, and as anyone with experience enough to know can certainly affirm in our generations, the most outstanding characteristic of “conservatism” (no matter where in the world you find it) is that it conserves nothing except the latest, greatest liberal/modernist innovation. And it only conserves that until the next popular innovation comes along. E.g., rejection of biblical complementarianism; biblical qualifications for elected officials, among a host of others.
(3) IMHO, the electoral process in the U.S. is inherently flawed, and therefore illegitimate. Now, this is admittedly my (informed) opinion, but the point is this – since this is what I truly believe in my soul, the only principled position I can take on it is to not participate in it – i.e., not lend it credibility by participating. The interested and curious among us will like to know why I say the system is “illegitimate.” I answer simply (although it goes much deeper than what is clearly apparent): the so called “universal franchise.” Therefore, …
(4) I respectfully disagree with Jason, in that voting third party *for me* would be unprincipled. In Traditionalist circles, we refer to such as “unprincipled exceptions.” For a Traditionalist abstension is the best option, the only option.
(5) Just to set the record straight, Donald Trump wouldn’t make a pimple on Hitler’s rear end! All of this nonsense comparing Trump to Hitler is just that. Moreover, Nazism (a disparaging term that the Germans never used themselves) is a completely misunderstood ideology in our generations. We in America tend to look on “National Socialism” through a modern-centric, America-centric lens. This is a huge mistake! But as one “ultra-conservative” friend recently opined, “I’ve watched every documentary ever made about Nazi Germany; I don’t need to inform myself anymore on the question.”
Quite. “Conservatives” tend to be quite sure of themselves and their “extensive” historical knowledge, (which almost always amounts to what we’ve been told, as opposed to any real or extensive scholarly and independent research). Americanism notoriously has that effect.
(6) In the interest of historical accuracy, the Mayflower Compact, Jason, is not proof that this country was founded a Christian nation. Keep in mind that the Pilgrims (as opposed to the Puritans – a distinction often overlooked, unfortunately) wrote and signed the Mayflower compact for the establishment of Plymouth Plantations.
It is true that at the time of the actual founding of the nation (as an independent nation), most of the 13 colonies/states had written in their constitutions the establishment of religion, namely Christianity, in one form or another. But this still does not prove the U.S. was founded a “Christian Nation.” Moreover, if this were the intention of the founders/framers, the Constitution they wrote contains its own seed(s) of contradiction of the aim, e.g., the clause prohibiting a religious test for public office, and the overrated establishment clause of the first amendment.
But in any case, the infiltrator-in-chief, Hussein Obama, actually had a good point when he said, “What we once were, we no longer are.” I’m sure you well know that modern American “Christians” are overwhelmingly nominally Christian at best. Hence all of these unbiblical/extra-biblical objections you’ve been treated to in the comments; hence, moreover, the popularity of Joel Olsteen style charismatic “Christianity” in these modern times.
…
We need to keep Romans 13 in our minds – Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
Oh and there isn’t any verse that say let your conscience be your guide.
I’m not suggesting that conscience be our guide, at least not one that is in rebellion against Scripture. Conscience should be shaped by Scripture.
And Romans 13 is not about unconditional obedience to the government.
Very good article. Both candidates are terrible, and I really can’t see how anyone can be “for” either of them. I’m well versed on both, read “The Art of the Deal” back in the 90’s, and have watched Hillary yipping at Bill’s heals saying “look at me, look at me” since he was governor of Arkansas. The problem with both candidates is they are liars, both hucksters, both dishonest to the core. And we really don’t know what either will do. Hillary has always been more liberal than Bill, more liberal that she says, going back to her Wellesley days. Trump? Hustler from the beginning. He won’t release those tax returns because they will show he’s worth a fraction of what he says. Christian? Pro-life? Not likely.
Vote for whoever you want, but don’t do it while trying to take a moral high ground.
thank you Jason. with so much chaos going on in the world its truly refreshing to step away and get some perspective. repentance is key and its the third time i heard it today in regards to this presidential race. definitely not a coincidence. psalms 106. God bless you!
Jason, I read your blog and many of the comments from your readers. Thank you for sharing your heart regarding this subject matter. I can relate to your issues, based on my opinions of the 2008 election between McCain and Obama, and the 2012 election between Obama and Romney. None of those candidates were qualified to be POTUS, in my humble opinion. And then to end up with Barack Obama for eight years, talk about shock!! My point is this; the question could be “who is the person who is perfectly qualified to hold the most important position in the world?” And maybe a follow-up question would be, “has there ever been a perfect person qualified to hold that position?” I would dare to say that from George Washington to Barack Obama no president has been found blameless and without sin or fault and 100% qualified to hold such an important position. And I would also venture to say that this person does not exist, nor would he ever, on this side of eternity. So, in saying that I must say this; I will vote for the running candidate that absolutely is the lessor of the two evils. I never voted for Obama, I never voted for Bill Clinton, and I’m not voting for Hillary. You do the math on this one. Thanks!
Never said anything about perfection. Thanks for reading!
Then what kind of candidate are you looking for? Who would satisfy you? Sounds like you’re not really happy with my response and now you’re splitting hairs. Have a nice day.
Not splitting hairs; I linked in this post to another post I did regarding biblical qualifications. http://jasongarwood.com/its-a-political-circus-really/
The idea that perfection is the goal eliminates God’s entire program for electing leaders in the Old Testament. How could they have ever elected anyone, then? Carefully examine the principles and go from there. My paradigm is covenantal, which means it’s an issue of ethics, which means it’s an issue of God’s judgments in history for our moral culpability. No one has been able to really answer that aspect.
Have a nice day as well! 🙂